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 8x55R Kropatschek "F.A" Manufacturer 
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Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 8:00 pm
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Post Portuguese
Phil - they are both clearly of Portuguese manufacture. I am not surprised well - FNM ammunition in 7.62 x 51 and 8mm Mauser is the most accurateordinary ball ammunition of either caliber I have ever shot!

Tomorrow I will post the picture of the BF 9mm Box just to add to the story. I will try the headstamp too, but don't know how that will go. I have had my ups and downs in that department.

John Moss


Tue Sep 04, 2007 1:54 am
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I agree with John, the production is Portuguese and I am almost sure that I


Tue Sep 04, 2007 5:08 am
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Post John Moss Collection
Image

Box for "BF" headstamped Portuguese 9mm Parabellum round. The BF headstamp shown above did not come from this box. I got no specimen with the box. The headstamp pictured is lot 10 of 1979 while the box is for lot 9 of 1979.

Pictured are four anonymous FNM 9mm Para cartridges. Left to right are British Contract, headstamp "71 9mm MK 2Z"; one found in Angola and that show up often in South Africa "A S C 73 - 3"; the afore-mentioned " + BF 79-10"; and finally, one with no headstamp. Concerning the BF headstamp, the "+" used here in the caption represents the normal NATO Mark.

John Moss


Tue Sep 04, 2007 5:45 am
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Post 8mm Kropatscheck
Sorry about the poor quality of the scan of the Portuguese "BF" 9mm box. I should have just done the box itself. You need a magnifying glass to read the headstamps of the cartridges on the computer screen, although I have explained them in the caption. I think in this case, I over-corrected in photo shop trying to make the headstamps legible. Not Joe's fault - mine entirely. It was a poor scan when I sent it to him.

I still have my ups and downs with scaning, especially headstamps. Some turn out pretty good and others turn out very poorly.


Tue Sep 04, 2007 10:07 am
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Post 
I


Tue Sep 04, 2007 11:16 am
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Post 8mm Kropatschek
Vitor - thanks for confirming this, although the cartridges pretty much speak for themselves. Regardless, it is great to have this kind of confirmation. It is not unusual for employees to not know the meaning of a headstamp on contract ammunition. Sometimes, it is simply based on a drawing from the purchasing country, and no one at the producing factory, from the top to the bottom, knows its significance. I have never heard anyone who knows the meaning of "ASC" on Portuguese 9mm either.


Tue Sep 04, 2007 11:39 am
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The sad true is that almost all of the documentation and the historical archives of FNM / INDEP are ashes by now. When the government dismantled INDEP, most of the machinery was sold by weight, as scrap, some of the firearms where also sold as scrap metal after being chirurgical cut (by laser, in very strange places


Tue Sep 04, 2007 11:57 am
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Post Unheadstamped FNM
John Moss/Jones earlier illustrated the head of an unheadstamped FNM 9mm Para cartridge. I wanted to expand on that a bit.
the box is illustrated below with some of the cartridges. There is nothing under the plain white label. The box is identical to an M/947 box of 9mm dated 1962, except it lacks the brown tape that normally goes around the sides of the box under the label on the ends sealing the box. The cartridge weigh ~192gr so are clearly the 124 gr M/947 loads instead of the M/970 115gr loads. These may have been sterile loads used before the ASC and later BF headstamps.

Image
Image
Image


Tue Sep 04, 2007 2:47 pm
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I had a few of those unheadstamped FNM 9mm Para rounds. The first one I got was offered with an additional story that related those unmarked ammunition with one of the most famous rescue operations prepared by the Portuguese military during the colonial war in Africa. The fellow that gave that described boxes like the one in the picture and said that it was a stupid thing because everyone would know that those where ammunition produced in Portugal by FNM.
I preserved that first cartridge convinced that I had something quite rare and exclusive. Several years later I found that the story was not true, or at lest no entirely true, because someone that was indeed in that operation said they only used soviet or Chinese confiscated firearms and ammunition. Nevertheless, I still have the strong filing that these boxes were initially made for use in secret operations of the Portuguese armed forces all over Africa colonies. As far as I know, this kind of manufacturer was not abandoned and served as well for secret contracts that FNM had with foreigner clients, even after the fall of the fascist regime in 1974 or the decolonisation that occurred in 1975. I know that at lest some of those unmarked rounds where produced long after that. However, I don


Tue Sep 04, 2007 6:21 pm
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I picked this packet up at the recent CCC show held in Prescott . I had always thought that the FF (as in


Wed Feb 18, 2009 7:53 pm
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Post Re: 8x56Kropatschek headstamps
DocAV wrote:
EG, Spain's most Famous Arsenal, Toledo, made Swords, Bayonets, Artillery, and Cartridges, and even contained an Officer's School within the ancient Moorish Fortress, the Al-Cazar...the presence of the cartridge machinery allowed the Cadets to hold out against the Republican Reds, during the famous Siege...


I have to disagree on this, I am afraid.

The F


Mon Aug 03, 2009 2:23 am
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