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 First outside-primed self-contained CF revolver round? 
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Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 8:00 pm
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Post First outside-primed self-contained CF revolver round?
.36/38 S&W? .44 WCF? Something else?

.


Mon Jan 15, 2007 1:20 pm
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Teak--Are you including inside primed or just Boxer & Berdan primed? If you include inside primed then I would nomenate 12mm Perrin or some similiar round from France as the earlist.


Mon Jan 15, 2007 4:51 pm
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Ron,

The fellow who asked me is only interested in the exterior primed types.

I don't know the dates of introduction, but certainly the Perrin and Raphael would warrant consideration if the inside-primed types were to be included.

.


Mon Jan 15, 2007 7:39 pm
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According to Charles Suydam (US Cartridges and Their Handguns), the fist American outside primed centerfire, reloadable, brass cased cartridge was the 44 S&W American, introduced about 1870.


Wed Jan 17, 2007 6:11 pm
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44 Webley ???

aka .442 Tranter

Ray


Last edited by historian on Wed Jan 17, 2007 11:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Wed Jan 17, 2007 6:16 pm
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Thank you, Guy!

.


Wed Jan 17, 2007 7:41 pm
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.450 Adams 1867 - Boxer primed...and still being made today.


Wed Jan 17, 2007 9:27 pm
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And thank you, Chris! Looks like we have the American and World Champions pegged.

.


Wed Jan 17, 2007 10:25 pm
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I'm not claiming the 450 Adams was the first reloadable centerfire, just that it pre-dates the 44 S&W American.
While the Adams Cartridge wasn't officially "Approved for Service" until Dec 1868, there is evidence that Eley supplied ".450 Boxer Revolver" cartridges to both John Adams and William Tranter in late 1867.


Wed Jan 17, 2007 10:45 pm
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Are we restricted to revolver rounds? How about the .50 cal Remington 1867 Rolling Block pistol? Or the very rare 45 cal pistol & ammo.

I'd also like to re-bid my earlier post on the 44 Webley, aka, .442 Tranter.

Ray


Wed Jan 17, 2007 10:56 pm
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Bonjour,

The center-fire revolver Moutier-Lepage (or Lepage-Moutier) was patented in France the 24 january 1857 (30677 french patent).
Image

The cartridge is outside primed.
Image
Image

The head stamp is LEPAGE MOUTIER PARIS.
Image



Who says better ?

chassepot


Thu Jan 18, 2007 1:59 am
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I submit the following:

Winchester Centerfire Rifle Ammunition

Winchester


Thu Jan 18, 2007 2:55 am
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Well, I'm sorry to have to burst Winchester's "bubble" concerning their claim to have made the first SUCCESSFUL CF cartridge.
The 450 Adams (aka the .450 Short Revolver) has been made continuously for nearly 140 years. It is still loaded today, commercially. It was made/marketed by over 60 companies. My modest collection contains about 460 variations. Hardly an unsuccessful cartridge !! I agree the 44-40 was far more popular but it wasn't the first "successful" cartridge and for all I know neither was the 450 Short Revolver.


Thu Jan 18, 2007 2:16 pm
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I'm sure Winchester put an advertising "spin" on their statement. I didn't post it to be taken as a fact. It's just that shortly after reading the posts on the first centerfire, I ran across their ad. As a reloader and a cartridge collector (abeit a minor one), I sometime go to the manufacturing sites for comparison of velocities, etc.

Just posted for general info.

Best,

Joe


Thu Jan 18, 2007 2:24 pm
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Since I know nothing about cartridges but maybe a little about firearms, I "reverse-engineered" this question by visualizing the first successful center-fire handguns, figuring that would lead to the first successful CF cartridges. The three I came up with were the 44 and 45 Trantor, the 1867 Navy Rolling Block, and the CF cartridge conversions of the Colt percussion revolvers. I believe that all three of these occured in the same time period and I'd be hard pressed to say which came first. But I do agree with Chris P that the early Winchester/Colt CF cartridges certainly are not on the list.

Ray


Thu Jan 18, 2007 2:54 pm
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