View unanswered posts | View active topics It is currently Tue Jul 29, 2014 10:45 am



Reply to topic  [ 21 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
 Turkish MKE 9 mm Parabellum Specifications 
Author Message

Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2010 6:45 pm
Posts: 2687
Location: Argentina
Post Turkish MKE 9 mm Parabellum Specifications
Technical Specification for the procurement of multi-station transfer press for the production of pistol cartridge case (2011):

1 - Deep drawn 9x19mm pistol cartridge case cup technical drawing (input material):
Image

2 - 9x19mm pistol cartridge technical drawing (output material):
Image


Wed Oct 26, 2011 9:40 pm
Profile

Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2011 1:47 pm
Posts: 39
Location: Belarus
Post Re: Turkish MKE 9 mm Parabellum Specifications
MKE 12 9P
Image


Sat Apr 19, 2014 1:57 pm
Profile

Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2012 5:48 pm
Posts: 434
Post Re: Turkish MKE 9 mm Parabellum Specifications
Thanks a lot for the drawings, showing stadia of current production methods, as far as I can tell.


Sun Apr 20, 2014 1:54 pm
Profile

Joined: Thu Sep 24, 2009 8:40 pm
Posts: 1682
Location: Pennsylvania, USA
Post Re: Turkish MKE 9 mm Parabellum Specifications
And here is the box for them, as currently sold at Walmart, with a "13" date:

Image

_________________
Always interested in 7.62x25 Tokarev & Mauser rounds!!!


Sun Apr 20, 2014 3:38 pm
Profile

Joined: Sun Sep 20, 2009 9:03 am
Posts: 1943
Location: Atlanta GA
Post Re: Turkish MKE 9 mm Parabellum Specifications
Hooke,

Thanks for the headstamp drawing-and thanks to johnnyc for the box label.

Hooke, your headstamp is very interesting because I think it was made by a very different company than the 2013 headstamp illustrated below which is from johnnyc's box. Notice the difference in the "K", the "E" and the "9". The spacing of the letters is also very different.

I think the 2013 headstamp looks like it was made by MFS (RUAG Hungary).

The "K" on the "12" round Hooke pictures is really different than any that come to my mind. Does anyone have any idea whose it is???

Since the MKE request for bids was dated April 2011, I'd be surprised if they got the contract awarded in less than a year so production deliveries were likely in 2013, but perhaps in 2012.

Either the 2012 headstamp was from a previous contract, or perhaps MKE awarded a contract to more than one bidder and both cases were deliveries against this contract.

I suspect the second alternative is correct since I have an MKE 05 with a red pa which is confirmed to be made by MFS, and a MKE 12 which has the same basic letter style as the MKE 05 and MKE 13 (except the "M" is very different). All three of these rounds have the same brass bullet!

There is another alternative. The primer crimps between Hooke's 2012 headstamp and both my 2013 hst and the 2005. The 2005 I have was reported to be completely loaded by MFS for MKE. Perhaps this is true and my 2013 load was also loaded by MFS for MKE while Hooke's 2012 was loaded by MKE (with the smaller primer crimps) from the cases supplied on the 2011 contract!

Other thoughts appreciated!

Cheers,
Lew

Image

Image

_________________
Lew Curtis
Always looking for 9x19mm cartridges, boxes and DATA!!!
Check http://gigconceptsinc.com for books on cartridge-info on 9x19mm-Updated 25 July 2012---9mm German WWII Cartons & Cases
USAF 1960-1996---Retired
IAA since 1965 ECRA since 1967


Sun Apr 20, 2014 9:23 pm
Profile WWW

Joined: Sat Sep 26, 2009 8:50 pm
Posts: 977
Post Re: Turkish MKE 9 mm Parabellum Specifications
All these differences Point to Common Turkish Practice of "Tendering out" supplies of Cartridge Cases for Filling by MKE's various Cartridge Plants, as well as making their own Cases.

A couple of years ago ( 2012, I think), there were Tender Docs and Specifications on the MKE Website detailing a supply of Unprimed , Empty 9x19 Cases, to Stanag specs, with an initial trial lots of 50,000 cases, followed by orders of several Million cases. The specification included the Headstamp details etc.

Regards, Doc AV


Sun Apr 20, 2014 9:41 pm
Profile

Joined: Sun Sep 20, 2009 9:03 am
Posts: 1943
Location: Atlanta GA
Post Re: Turkish MKE 9 mm Parabellum Specifications
Doc, This is the April 2011 request for bids that I mentioned. I was told that there were four or so bids, but have no idea who bid or who won the contract.

In the US with this kind of contract, it is not unusual for more than one bidder to be awarded a contract if the bids are close. The orders are then sent to both and if one proves to have better performance then that organization gets more of the orders. I guess it is possible MKE did something like this. I do not recall the bid request limiting the awards to a single contractor.


Do you know who had the previous contracts for MKE 9x19 cartridges and components? I only have confirmed the MFS contract, but based on the headstamps I think there were others who made some of the cases. The primer crimp on Hooke's headstamp look similar to those on some 9x19s from Iran, but seem somewhat better aligned than those on my Iranian samples.

Thanks for the input Doc.

Cheers,
Lew

_________________
Lew Curtis
Always looking for 9x19mm cartridges, boxes and DATA!!!
Check http://gigconceptsinc.com for books on cartridge-info on 9x19mm-Updated 25 July 2012---9mm German WWII Cartons & Cases
USAF 1960-1996---Retired
IAA since 1965 ECRA since 1967


Mon Apr 21, 2014 9:04 am
Profile WWW

Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2011 1:47 pm
Posts: 39
Location: Belarus
Post Re: Turkish MKE 9 mm Parabellum Specifications
from the network:

Image Image
Image


Mon Apr 21, 2014 12:41 pm
Profile

Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2011 1:47 pm
Posts: 39
Location: Belarus
Post Re: Turkish MKE 9 mm Parabellum Specifications
MKE 11 9P

Image


Mon Apr 21, 2014 1:24 pm
Profile

Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2011 1:47 pm
Posts: 39
Location: Belarus
Post Re: Turkish MKE 9 mm Parabellum Specifications
Image

Image

http://zqiammousa.com/ammunition/9x19/


Mon Apr 21, 2014 1:31 pm
Profile

Joined: Sun Sep 20, 2009 9:03 am
Posts: 1943
Location: Atlanta GA
Post Re: Turkish MKE 9 mm Parabellum Specifications
Hooke, Well done! I think the primer crimp is in fact Turkish! When I looked, I found I had 7 Turkish specimens with the square primer crimps like your 2012 dated case. I should have thought of looking at them. Only excuse is that until a couple of hours ago I had two Germans returning from SLICS staying with me.

Much appreciate your postings and research!

Cheers,
Lew

_________________
Lew Curtis
Always looking for 9x19mm cartridges, boxes and DATA!!!
Check http://gigconceptsinc.com for books on cartridge-info on 9x19mm-Updated 25 July 2012---9mm German WWII Cartons & Cases
USAF 1960-1996---Retired
IAA since 1965 ECRA since 1967


Mon Apr 21, 2014 5:32 pm
Profile WWW

Joined: Sun Sep 20, 2009 9:03 am
Posts: 1943
Location: Atlanta GA
Post Re: Turkish MKE 9 mm Parabellum Specifications
Well, another curve ball. I just received a box of the MKE 13 rounds and it is different from anything pictured above!!!

Image

Note the letter style and primer crimp is like that pictured by Hooke on his MKE 13 and the photo immediately above, BUT the date is on the left of the headstamp instead of the right. This is now three headstamp variations among this stuff.

Both of these boxes came out of the same Walmart store as far as I know!

Has anyone found rounds maked like the MKE 13 in Hooke's picture immediately above??? If so, save one for me!!!

Has anyone found any other headstamp styles from the Turkish 9mm ammo from Walmart. If you see any, pick up a few boxes cause there are a number of us that would like some!

Always something new! Never say Never!!!


Cheers,
Lew

_________________
Lew Curtis
Always looking for 9x19mm cartridges, boxes and DATA!!!
Check http://gigconceptsinc.com for books on cartridge-info on 9x19mm-Updated 25 July 2012---9mm German WWII Cartons & Cases
USAF 1960-1996---Retired
IAA since 1965 ECRA since 1967


Thu May 01, 2014 8:55 pm
Profile WWW

Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2010 6:45 pm
Posts: 2687
Location: Argentina
Post Re: Turkish MKE 9 mm Parabellum Specifications
Lew, here is a picture of a ZQI box showing the third variation. You better visit Walmart more often!

Image


Fri May 02, 2014 9:52 am
Profile

Joined: Sun Sep 20, 2009 9:03 am
Posts: 1943
Location: Atlanta GA
Post Re: Turkish MKE 9 mm Parabellum Specifications
Fede, A friend of ours who bought the first two boxes also bought one for John M and it was full of the ones like those in your illustration!!!

This is a crazy world for a headstamp collector...

Thanks for your post.

Cheers,
Lew

_________________
Lew Curtis
Always looking for 9x19mm cartridges, boxes and DATA!!!
Check http://gigconceptsinc.com for books on cartridge-info on 9x19mm-Updated 25 July 2012---9mm German WWII Cartons & Cases
USAF 1960-1996---Retired
IAA since 1965 ECRA since 1967


Fri May 02, 2014 10:17 am
Profile WWW

Joined: Thu Sep 24, 2009 8:40 pm
Posts: 1682
Location: Pennsylvania, USA
Post Re: Turkish MKE 9 mm Parabellum Specifications
Lew, I really don't like going to Walmart this often........you may have gotten all you're going to get!

_________________
Always interested in 7.62x25 Tokarev & Mauser rounds!!!


Fri May 02, 2014 12:16 pm
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic   [ 21 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 10 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group.
Designed by STSoftware for PTF.