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 10,4mm Chamelot-Delvigne Modello 1874 
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Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2010 6:39 pm
Posts: 23
Location: Argentina
Post 10,4mm Chamelot-Delvigne Modello 1874
Hello, this is my first post.
I have 10,4 mm Chamelot-Delvigne Modello 1874 round.
I would like to identify the A-C T - 92 * headstamp.
What does the star mean?

Thanks for reading this, any help is appreciated.

Sergio

[url][URL=http://s1288.photobucket.com/user/sroggeroni/media/104-Chamelot/104mmChamelot_zpsd207fc8b.jpg.html]Image[/url][/url]


Last edited by SMR on Fri Jul 12, 2013 9:11 pm, edited 3 times in total.



Fri Jul 12, 2013 6:23 pm
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Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2010 6:45 pm
Posts: 2970
Location: Argentina
Post Re: 10,4mm Chamelot-Delvigne Modello 1874
Hola Sergio, ¡que bueno verte por acá!

The star indicates a case having a Berdan primer pocket.

Un abrazo grande,

Fede


Fri Jul 12, 2013 6:59 pm
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Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2010 6:39 pm
Posts: 23
Location: Argentina
Post Re: 10,4mm Chamelot-Delvigne Modello 1874
Thank you very much Fede

Sergio


Fri Jul 12, 2013 8:47 pm
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Joined: Sat Sep 26, 2009 8:50 pm
Posts: 1071
Post Re: 10,4mm Chamelot-Delvigne Modello 1874
T 91(?) Torino (Turin) 1891 Italy.

The Turin Artillery Arsenal had also an Ammunition Plant attached ( in the Dora Industrial District , in Northern Turin.) Factory Buildings were still standing when I was in Turin, 1974-83...since then have been re-developed into residential areas. The original "Arsenale" in the Centre of the City is still the HQ of the Artillery Service and other Military Commands ( "Ordnance" to US Speakers)

A.C. Inspector's Initials (Surname First, First Name Last) ID ???

Cartridge Interchangeable with the M1889 Glisenti /Bodeo Cartridge.
The M74 cartridge was originally BP, but converted to smkeless when the M89 Revolver was introduced. The Cartridge was further upgraded with a Jacketed/Plated Bullet in 1899. ( as was the Vetterli Bullet)

Most of these cases were originally Boxer-style Priming, but the Berdan priming was introduced sometime in the early 1890s.

10,4 Vetterli cases continued Boxer priming quite a bit longer, and the "Components" supplied by the US during WW I were also Boxer primed.


Sat Jul 13, 2013 7:05 am
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Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2010 3:03 pm
Posts: 65
Location: FRANCE
Post Re: 10,4mm Chamelot-Delvigne Modello 1874
Hello Sergio,
Basing on the book "culots de munitions",
there is an inspector with A.C initials :"Adamo Cavallo", but on "Bologne" case product.


Sat Jul 13, 2013 11:59 am
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Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2009 5:42 pm
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Post Re: 10,4mm Chamelot-Delvigne Modello 1874
Laurent - Are you sure of that identification? "A.C." as it appears on an Italian-generated list, and the most complete list I have seen, is shown as an Unknown Inspector at Bologna in the 1890s. "C.A." is Afredo Cavalli and is much later, and found on both products of Bologna and Capua.

These initials are usually used with the last name (initial) given first, and then the first name (initial) give after it. So, for example, "C.A." is Cavalli, Alfredo. Some sources show the name as "Cavallo, Alfredo."

I wish the Italian Government would declassify this ancient information. The last word I had from out Italian friends is that this information is still coonsidered "secret" by the Italian Government. You would think they would declassify at least the names of the pre-1946 inspectors.

Similar to the name you gave, there was "A.A." which was Aldo, Adamo, at Capua. No dates given.

Just wondered what the source of your information was? The list I use appeared on the IAA Forum of January 16, 2007, posted by Vittorio, who seems to be quite expert on Italian Ammunition.

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Sat Jul 13, 2013 4:27 pm
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Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2010 6:39 pm
Posts: 23
Location: Argentina
Post Re: 10,4mm Chamelot-Delvigne Modello 1874
Thank you all,
Hopefully some Italian collector help us.
Sergio


Sun Jul 14, 2013 5:41 pm
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Joined: Sat Sep 26, 2009 8:50 pm
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Post Re: 10,4mm Chamelot-Delvigne Modello 1874
Italian Ammuniton Inspectors did move about quite a bit; sometimes in a particular year, they could be assigned to different Factories, hence the "doubling" of appearances at two different factories. Only very senior inspectors seem to have "Tenure" at a particular Plant for a longer time period.

Regards,
Doc AV


Mon Jul 15, 2013 12:59 am
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Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2010 3:03 pm
Posts: 65
Location: FRANCE
Post Re: 10,4mm Chamelot-Delvigne Modello 1874
JohnMoss wrote:
Laurent - Are you sure of that identification? "A.C." as it appears on an Italian-generated list, and the most complete list I have seen, is shown as an Unknown Inspector at Bologna in the 1890s. "C.A." is Afredo Cavalli and is much later, and found on both products of Bologna and Capua.

Just wondered what the source of your information was? The list I use appeared on the IAA Forum of January 16, 2007, posted by Vittorio, who seems to be quite expert on Italian Ammunition.



Hello John,
I found this information in :
"culots de munitions" by S.Jorion and P.Regenstrief.


Mon Jul 15, 2013 3:38 am
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Joined: Fri Sep 25, 2009 3:19 am
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Location: Loneriacco di Tarcento , ITALY
Post Re: 10,4mm Chamelot-Delvigne Modello 1874
" AA" ( for Aldo Adamo) was used from 1926 to 1940 on Capua headstamps.

"AC" is still unknown to my knowledge

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Mon Jul 15, 2013 8:21 am
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Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2009 5:42 pm
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Post Re: 10,4mm Chamelot-Delvigne Modello 1874
Pivi & Laurent - I think what we are seeing here is some confusion between A.C. and C.A. caused by the use of the last name first. I know that there is no confusion on that with Pivi or other Italian Collectors, and none from me, because I learned about this usage early on, in Italy.

I think there is also a mixing of two names into one, appearing on this thread. Note the use of "Adamo Cavallo" for A.C. when actually there is an Aldo, ADAMO using the initials A.A., and Cavalli, ALFREDO, using the initials C.A.

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John Moss
U.S. Army and USAR 1956-1965
Life Member IAA
Life Member ECRA
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Mon Jul 15, 2013 9:33 am
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Joined: Wed May 04, 2011 5:32 pm
Posts: 36
Location: Chile
Post Re: 10,4mm Chamelot-Delvigne Modello 1874
Wellcome to the forum, mi buen amigo Sergio.

Saludos

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Claudio.-


Mon Jul 15, 2013 10:29 am
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