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 Czech 9mm headstamp collection 
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Joined: Sat Sep 26, 2009 3:56 pm
Posts: 1858
Location: Bangor, Maine - USA
Post Czech 9mm headstamp collection
I avoid headstamp collecting except for the Czech / Slovak 9x19 stuff from 1946 - 1957. Below is my most recent scan of all the headstamps I have, with a letter / number key to make discussion & reference easier. I am wondering how many more headstamps are out there in this type that I don't yet have? There are a few duplicate headstamps and oddities which I explain below:

B8 = CNCS, only Czech 9x19 of this era with red P.A. (that I know of)
B9 = GMCS

C7 = CNCS
C8 = GMCS

C9 = CNCS
C10 = GMCS (more rounded profile bullet)

D2 = GMCS bullet
D3 = CNCS bullet

F8 = CNCS, black P.A., 3 stab crimps in case neck
F9 = CNCS, no primer seal

All of row J, as well as I-5, I-10, and H-2 are steel case. All others are brass case. To my knowledge, all of the bullets have the mild steel core, except perhaps C-10 which has a different more rounded-nose bullet profile.


Image

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Matt Collins
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Sat Oct 26, 2013 9:48 pm
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Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2009 10:05 am
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Location: Asker, Norway
Post Re: Czech 9mm headstamp collection
I can add 6 headstamps to your list:

Image

Bullets are (from top left to lower right):
CNCS, Purple wooden bt., Purple wooden bt., GMCS, Purple wooden bt. and CNCS.
No 1, 2 and 4 are steel cases.

Speaking of these "geometric codes", I take the freedom to show my check-list on these:

Image

Prepeared in 1997, the list should certainly have been modernized and updated. It was made on the basis of cartridges in my own collection and from information found in an article written by Frances C. Allan in "The International Cartridge Collector" #318 in September/October 1983, which was the forerunner of our splendid International Ammunition Journal.

After all these years of searching, there are some headstamps that I included in the list, that I have never seen. Neither a cartridge nor any other reference to them. These are the squares not filled with red in the list.

Have any of you collectors out there ever seen any of these headstamps?

Thanks
morten


Fri Nov 01, 2013 5:22 pm
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Joined: Sat Sep 26, 2009 3:56 pm
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Location: Bangor, Maine - USA
Post Re: Czech 9mm headstamp collection
Thanks Morten,

I have another list of known / acquired headstamps from another collector, and I will have to compile a definite list to show what is out there.

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Matt Collins
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Ask about my book: "Pistol Caliber Penetrators"
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Fri Nov 01, 2013 5:25 pm
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Joined: Sat Sep 26, 2009 3:56 pm
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Location: Bangor, Maine - USA
Post Re: Czech 9mm headstamp collection
I just pawed through 2000 rds of filthy mixed headstamp Czech 9mm from 1946 to 1951 and managed to find only 2 new heaqdstamps to me. They are unremarkable lot number variations except for the fact that one has a green P.A. seal on it. I found about 6 of these 48 3 * - Z (shown at left below) in the large mixed lot, and they all had a green P.A.. The scan below may not do it it justice, but it sticks out prominently when you look at it in person. This marks only the second non-black colored P.A. seal I have found on Czech 9mm of this era after the aforementioned 46 Z 14 9mmP with red sealer.

Image

I also found a few of the oma headstamped rds which appear to have a bullet jacket with a brass color. I have a few other oma rds, and have discussed them here before, but those were not brass colored jackets. Not sure what that is about and I am trying to clean them up and inspect them presently.

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Matt Collins
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Collecting pistol caliber AP & oddball cartridges.
Ask about my book: "Pistol Caliber Penetrators"
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Wed Feb 19, 2014 9:58 am
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Joined: Thu Sep 24, 2009 8:40 pm
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Location: Pennsylvania, USA
Post Re: Czech 9mm headstamp collection
That's not bad. I would love to go through 2000 rounds of 7.62 Tokarev and find 2 or 3 that I needed!

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Wed Feb 19, 2014 10:18 am
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Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2009 5:42 pm
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Post Re: Czech 9mm headstamp collection
Matt - the "oma" rounds come in several variations. Rarest is "oma 44" which, despite the date, is certainly a post-war round, made to conceal point and nation of identity. It is like the "ndn 44" rounds in that regard. These are not, in my opinion, WWII German coded cases. I can't explain the variety of them other than to believe that perhaps the Czechs made a very big supply of the cases, and they were loaded at different times. Variations I have of the "oma" round are:

Brass case, brass primer cup, no seals, CNCS bullet
Brass case, all-red primer cup, red case-mouth seal, CNCS bullet
The above two possibly have plain steel jackets, rather than true
CNCS
Brass case, brass primer cup, no seals, Brass-CS bullet
Brass case, all-red primer cup, red case-mouth seal, brass-CS bullet

The above bullets are all FMJ with a fairly pointed ogive. One of the few instances I can think of with brass-clad-steel jackets. Most brass-jacket bullets are non-magnetic, or that is my impression at least.

Just to round it out, I have the following in "ndn 44" headstamp:

Brass case, brass primer, no seals, CNCS (or plain steel) bullet
Brass case, brass primer, black primer seal, no cms, black-CS bullet
Brass case, all-red primer, red cms, CNCS (or plain steel) bullet
Brass case, brass primer, no seals, brass-CS bullet
Brass case, all-red primer, red cms, brass-CS bullet

I don't have the "oma 44" headstamp. I think it is known from only one or two rounds. I have seen a photograph of the headstamp, so it is not simply a mis-reported headstamp.

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Wed Feb 19, 2014 3:03 pm
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Location: Bangor, Maine - USA
Post Re: Czech 9mm headstamp collection
Here are those 3 oma headstamped cartridges I recently found with varying degrees of fading brass-clad on the steel jacket. The one on the left is the most complete, and although they all look sort of copper in the photo, they are just dirty brass:

Image

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Matt Collins
Member - IAA
Collecting pistol caliber AP & oddball cartridges.
Ask about my book: "Pistol Caliber Penetrators"
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Fri Feb 21, 2014 10:33 pm
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Joined: Sun Sep 27, 2009 9:45 pm
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Location: Lincoln, Nebraska
Post Re: Czech 9mm headstamp collection
Matt and Morten,
Thanks for posting. I have been rather complacent on my Czech headstamps search over the last few years, when it has been very hard to add any to the collection. I did note a couple within the lists that I am missing, so I need to continue my hunt.

For the Z-* headstamps I have 47 6, 7, 8, 9, 11 and 48 6, 7.

I look forward to your next list. I had a hard time with the pictured headstamps, my eyes get tired easily these days. The check list such that Morten posted was easy to view.
Gary

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Sat Feb 22, 2014 10:33 pm
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Post Re: Czech 9mm headstamp collection
DKConfiguration

Most impressed with the scanned images. How did you achieve this.?

John


Tue Feb 25, 2014 8:34 pm
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Location: Bangor, Maine - USA
Post Re: Czech 9mm headstamp collection
JohnKindred wrote:
DKConfiguration
Most impressed with the scanned images. How did you achieve this.?
John

I keep my current collection of Czech 9mm headstamps in a clear 100rd plastic flip-top case (from Berry's I think). I keep the cartridges with the headstamp facing up, and a while back I held the case with lid open in one hand, and my flatbed scanner in the other, and I flipped the scanner onto the cartridges, and then flipped them both over. Then I just scanned them in and once I had the image file I used the cut tool with the circle shape to cut out each headstamp. With each headstamp cut I could then wipe out the background and rotate & adjust the brightness to make them look their best. I have added a few new headstamps over time by just scanning in a cartridge or two at a time and then cutting & pasting the new headstamps into the big image with all the other headstamps.

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Matt Collins
Member - IAA
Collecting pistol caliber AP & oddball cartridges.
Ask about my book: "Pistol Caliber Penetrators"
Image - coming soon!


Tue Feb 25, 2014 10:13 pm
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Post Re: Czech 9mm headstamp collection
Matt,

Thanks you very much for that interesting info. The results are amazing.

Cheers

John


Wed Feb 26, 2014 2:45 am
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Post Re: Czech 9mm headstamp collection
Just sifted through another 1000rds of these and found a 49 5 * ^ (which Morten posted one of above), and the only other one was a slightly more interesting variation of my headstamp shown at C-2 in my original full photo above. It is 50 5 * ♣ and the one I found today has a CNCS jacket on the bullet, whereas my original one was GMCS.

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Matt Collins
Member - IAA
Collecting pistol caliber AP & oddball cartridges.
Ask about my book: "Pistol Caliber Penetrators"
Image - coming soon!


Fri Feb 28, 2014 1:25 pm
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Post Re: Czech 9mm headstamp collection
I just searched a new batch of 350+ rds still on stripper clips with only two cartridges of note. One has Arabic (Egypt or Syria?), and then another 2 rds with the same Syrian headstamp * E.I.D. 55 * REX

Image

Seems like a case of captured U.A.R. ammo that the Israelis had, which was later imported to the U.S. by Interarms. I usually see this stuff in 50rd green boxes with black plastic trays, but when still in original stripper clips it is often in the original Czech boxes. These clips were loose and had an assortment of 5 or 6 Czech headstamps which didn't necessarily match the markings on the clips they were in. The Israelis must have had plenty of captured Syrian & Egyptian 9mm ammo to sort and store after the 6-day war, and it seems like most of it was Czech ammo which had been in Egyptian possession.

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Matt Collins
Member - IAA
Collecting pistol caliber AP & oddball cartridges.
Ask about my book: "Pistol Caliber Penetrators"
Image - coming soon!


Wed Mar 05, 2014 1:13 pm
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Post Re: Czech 9mm headstamp collection
The E.I.D. REX headstamp and the other are both Syrian. The EID headstamp showed up for a short while - never common, but attainable if one worked at it. I have not seen one in a box of someone's dupes for years now, and suspect it is now a very, very scarce headstamp.

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Wed Mar 05, 2014 3:16 pm
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Post Re: Czech 9mm headstamp collection
Here is the other headstamp check list I had from another collector. The key at the top image explains the case metal, and bullet type columns, and each headstamp image on the left depicts a style of headstamp with all known dates to the right in the chart. The green X's are ones that collector is looking for, and the blue dates are ones that he has. Only the known lot-number squares are colored in either blue or green within the spaces for all 12 lots. I count roughly 130 variations that exist if I include the oma and ndn headstamps which are not shown in this list. I think that the column labelled "cap" is referring to the primer type, whereas almost all of them are brass colored, and only a couple are labelled as "Zn" which are zinc-colored.

Image
Image
Image
Image
Image

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Matt Collins
Member - IAA
Collecting pistol caliber AP & oddball cartridges.
Ask about my book: "Pistol Caliber Penetrators"
Image - coming soon!


Fri Mar 14, 2014 9:48 am
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